OutUK: Is this to combat the anonymity of erotica writers, and generate
more enthusiasm among the general book buying population for erotica as a
legitimate category in literature?
M: Hell yes! It bugs the crap out of me when people put down modern
erotic writing, lumping it together with the awful stuff that's used to get its
pages stuck together. This stuff isn't porn. Yeah, it might turn you
on, but it also might creep you out, make you laugh, make you think, and
all kinds of other stuff. This is great writing, wonderful story telling
yeah, there's sex and all, but these stories will bushwhack you in ways
you'll never expect. And, for the first time you also get to hear from the
writers themselves, on why they write these kinds of stories, how much of them
are true, how they got started, where they get their ideas, trips through the
minds of some great writers, sex or otherwise.
OutUK: You're an erotic writer. So are the people in this book. Will
anyone else be interested in it?
M: Don't you want to know why someone writes this kind of stuff?
Wouldn't you like to look into the heads of some of these sex writers and see
where their ideas come from? Or how about how they put their own sex lives
into their stories? People are fascinated by writers, the strange folks who
sit at their desks and type up worlds, people, strange adventures, but what
about people who are not just writers, but are writers who go where no one
else goes: sex! I know horror writers who are terrified of writing about
their sex lives, and science fiction writers who have no imagination when it
comes to erotica. These writers do stuff no one else does, and they do
it loud and proud and screw you if you don't like it. Isn't that someone
you'd like to know more about?
OutUK: Hmmm. Not sure. Earlier, you said that "The Burning Pen" is a
who's who of sex writing. I know there is a fair amount of attention paid to
erotica writers in San Francisco, but they are pretty much unknown in
the rest of the world. Why is that?
M: San Francisco has a long sexual and literary tradition that's helped
create this list of erotic writers. Sure New York has it's share of good
writers, but San Francisco is really the place for damned good sex writing.
Patrick Califia-Rice has this really cool description of us San
Francisco sex writers: Glamorous Nerd Pornographers. San Francisco is a sexy,
smart, stylish city so it's only natural that a lot of the best sex writers come
from here, and if they don't then they come at least from California, which
is the next best thing. These are the folks who have blown the doors of
what you think of 'porn' or 'erotica.' You can't read what these folks have
written and not have it get to you and more than just below your waist.
What's really great is we not only get their hot stories but also essays on
why they do it.
OutUK: But why doesn't the rest of the country or the rest of the world
know who you are?
M: I think they do. The hot list of contemporary erotica writers is a very
short one: Patrick Califia-Rice, Carol Queen, Shar Rednour, Laura Antoniou,
Cecilia Tan, Thomas Roche, Simon Sheppard - okay, Laura and Cecilia aren't here
in Sinful San Francisco, but everyone else is and all in this book, by the way.
Besides, it bugs the hell out of me that people think that only people like
Stephen King or Tom Clancy are worth reading when there's a lot more
interesting stuff out there, even in erotica: if you wait for someone to bestow
fabulousness on a writer or a genre before reading it you're just a sheep being
led along by rumour and marketing. I'd much rather be known for being a damned
good writer among people who I respect than have people read me because I was lucky
enough to get noticed by someone like Oprah.
OutUK: I'd love to see you on the Oprah Book Club though. That would be
fantastic. So, when it comes to porn, which is better, videos, magazines or books?
M: Well, that really depends on what you want to do, doesn't it? Want to
just get off, then usually a video does the trick and if you don't have that then
grab a magazine. But this isn't a book about getting off. Yeah, these are people
who write about sex, all kinds of sex: straight, gay, bi, you name it but while
they might turn you on they're really more interested in taking sex apart, playing
around with it. Their stuff is: hot, yes, arousing, sure, but also damned scary,
spiritual, full of laughs, or be chilling to the bone stories. Besides, grow up!
You want to get off then do your video or magazine, but while it might work for
you its not really showing you anything new, wild, different, or meaningful, is
it? This stuff will screw with your mind, with how you even look at sex and the
people who write it as well as your body.
OutUK: You make getting off sound unworthy. Isn't that the point of erotica?
M: It can be, but it can be a lot more. Look, erotica is like any other
literary genre, it can cover a very wide range of styles and attitudes. Look at
mystery, it can go from Miss Marple to Raymond Chandler, from sitting-room to
scummy back alleys, but it's basic nature is still there, solving the puzzle.
Erotica is the same, it can go from shiny happy people having shiny happy sex to
darker-than-dark, meaner-than-mean creepy stuff but it's always somehow about sex
and sexuality. If you look at it just with your Peter Meter that's fine, but you
also could be cutting yourself off from a whole other erotic dimension or just
damned good reading. Jerking off is great, but there's more to sex than that and
erotica is a damned good place to see what's out there.
OutUK: Oh, come on. People read porn to get off. Why should it be deeper
M: You want to eat McDonalds all your life? Sure, you groove on chocolate
ice-cream, but what if that's the only thing on the menu? Sex is the same. Sure,
people might like to get off to the same-old same-old, the usual, but it gets
boring. Writers like these show us all kinds of new ways of either doing it or
looking sideways at what we're already doing. I've always thought that was a crappy
standard for erotica: does it get anyone off? There are lots of other ways to feel
about sex than just "wham-bam, thank you, ma'am." The stories and essays in this
book will show you all kinds of new ways of looking at sex, and what kind of person
writes sex stories. I guarantee it. And, yeah, it should be deeper than that and
these folks prove it. I dare you to read some of the stories and essays in this
book and not have the way you look at sex get realigned. Sure, lots of people start
to read stories like these to get off, but now then get caught up in that new
way of looking at sex or just to read some damned good stories by damned good
OutUK: Has anyone ever asked you when you were going to write something
real, and what did you say?
M: No one's asked, but let's say that you just did: what the hell do you
mean by real? I mean, sure, I've done some of the stuff in my stories, but a lot
of it I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot-pole. But I'll tell you, everything I do
has at least a bit of some reality in it: I might not have done some of it physically
but I sure have been there emotionally. That's why I think I can write all the
stuff I do gay to lesbian, S/M stuff, fetish stories ... you name it. I always
put something real, what I've felt, into what I write.
OutUK: That's cool, but what I meant is, when are you going to write a real
M: Screw you! Erotica is as real as any genre. Hell, a lot of the mainstream
books out there have a helluva lot more explicit sex in them than most of what I
write. I write a lot of stuff, all of it crafted with the same amount of diligence
and, well, 'heart' is the best way I could describe it: from science fiction to
horror, from essays to poetry including when I write about sex, whether it's to
turn people on, freak them out, or to just teach them something I always try to put
my best on the page. I can also shoot that question right back at you: isn't sex 'real' for
you? Or is it just too scary and personal for you to look at? Maybe erotica's
coming out of the closet because writers and readers are tired of having it
demeaned, downplayed, or ignored. Like a lot of other things in our lives, sex is
important. But unlike a lot of those other things, many people don't want to even
examine it. Erotica's growing popularity and respect is because we are finally
starting to realize, after thousands of years, that sex is a valid, core part of
our lives and human culture. If that's not 'real' then I don't know what is.
OutUK: Point taken. Okay, last question: most people would assume that erotica writers
are the horniest people alive, and that all you think about is sex. Is that true?
M: What, did you say something? Sorry, I was mentally undressing you. Sure, some
people who write erotica do it to have fun with their own sex lives, talking about
what they really did last night and so forth, but others look sex right in the...
well, let's call it 'the eye' for now ... and don't blink. They're activists as
well as writers, telling it has it is, or how it should be. These writers, like
Patrick Califia-Rice and Carol Queen get down in the sexual trenches, putting
their libidos on the page. Others, like Laura Antoniou and Cecilia Tan, put their
wildest fantasies into their stories. Everyone in this book has a different reason
for writing erotica, and everyone has a different amount of "real" sex in their
stuff. Sure, some of them might get their libidos cranked up when they write their
stories, but others don't at all - like me. To quote Monty Python (from
the Life of Brian) "We're all individuals."